Curse

sirblack · Mar 30, 2011, 10:01 PM // 22:01

FINAL EDIT:

Nevermind.

This started from the idea of trying to remove the grind of these titles, but without any good ideas on what the replace that with. The actual suggestions presented would just have made these titles more easily purchasble without adding any other substance to them and so would wreck the existing "value" that people have associated with them. That just trivializes the titles and isn't really an improvement. The responses are overwhelmingly against that, and I understand why.

While there might once have been some merit in suggesting to replace the grind with some other form of gameplay, that time is probably long past given how well established these titles are now. Even if anyone had any actual good ideas for such changes, those would probably be drastic and very unlikely to happen at this point anyway.

I retract these suggestions and I don't have any better alternatives to suggest here. I would be fine if this thread gets closed or otherwise left to be ignored since I don't think there's anything else useful to be discussed.

-------------

With the recent changes to the LDoA and Drunkard titles, ArenaNet seems to indicate that they want players to be able to achieve titles through normal reasonable gameplay (instead of excessive things like death-leveling enemies or keeping a character drunk for 166 hours).

Should they now take a look at the Treasure Hunter title?

In normal gameplay (vanquishes, dungeons, etc) my best estimate is that a player might encounter 5 chests per hour on average. That means it would take 2000 hours of such normal PvE gameplay to max Treasure Hunter. Now I'm sure there are many people who have put that much time into the game over its entire lifetime, and I know there are some who have put two or three times as much in. But 2000 hours is still rather huge. Furthermore, some players would have invested significant amounts of time into this game before Treasure Hunter was ever a title worth pursuing, or even before the title existed at all.

So to achieve max Treasure Hunter in a shorter amount of time, the only real option is chest running. With the rates noted on the wiki and elsewhere, one can expect to get 1 chest per minute at best. That means 10000 minutes of only chest running. If a player spends 1 hour of nothing except running chests every single day, it would take around 5 and a half months to max the title. I think that would be incredibly tedious and an absurd timesink.

Since ArenaNet has indicated that they don't want players spending 10000 minutes drunk to achieve Drunkard, would it also be reasonable that players shouldn't need to spend 10000 minutes running chests to achieve Treasure Hunter?

And of course this affects three other titles as well: Wisdom, Lucky, and Unlucky. About the only reasonable way to acquire enough points for these other titles is along with Treasure Hunter.

Suggestions

A) Create a small instance with either typical PvE gameplay or perhaps a new minigame/challenge. It would be short enough to take only around 3 to 6 minutes of time and would have a guaranteed reward of something like 20 to 40 chests to open. I don't have ideas on what the exact details of this gameplay would be. But the point is to provide something with a much larger chests per minute rate than we currently have.

B) Forget trying to tie it to gameplay. Just make a small explorable instance with 20 or 30 chests that players can enter at will. This would make it tremendously faster to get points, as long as one can afford keys/lockpicks.

Note: If it seems reasonable, either of these ideas could be modified to have certain restrictions such as requiring a player to have first reached level 20, completed EotN, achieved rank 1 Treasure Hunter, etc.

Objections

Wouldn't this kill the market for upgrades/tomes/whatever?
Most upgrades and normal tomes are already extremely cheap. The only real concern would be with elite tomes, rare materials, rare skins, and a few runes. If those are really worth worrying about, then these ideas could be modified so that the chests only drop common skins or at least drop anything interesting much less often than other chests in the game.

Wouldn't this allow more people to get the titles than would have otherwise?
I'm not suggesting any changes to the monetary cost of the title. It would still require purchasing all those keys or lockpicks. And chest loot could still be just as low valued as today. This would only affect how much time it requires people to invest. So yes, some additional people who wouldn't have tried otherwise would now probably go for these titles. But they still have to be able to afford the total cost of it.

But what about the people who achieved these titles the hard way?
Well, they can still have the personal satisfaction of knowing they did it the hard way, just like anyone who achieved max Survivor or Drunkard before the changes to those titles.

Haven't they changed enough titles? Can't you be happy?
No

I think chest running is a poor form of "gameplay". And while it might be fine in moderation, 166 hours of it is far too much.

TL;DR
Treasure Hunter and related titles are just as much of a timesink as Drunkard was previously. Make a faster way somehow.

-----------------------

EDIT:

Fair enough if you don't like the original two suggestions. On second thought they do go a bit far towards just being able to buy the titles outright.

In that case, my question is: do you think these titles should at least be changed in some way that remove/reduce the need for straight grind and replace it with some other kind of more "reasonable" gameplay? I'm fine with players having to put in effort for a title (examples like Guardian, Vanquisher, Skill Hunter, and even Cartographer). I'm just not so keen on the idea that the way to achieve Treasure Hunter and such in anything less than several years of normal gameplay would be excessive grinding at chest running.

Given the responses, some people would say no to this too because apparently the "value" of this title is the "prestige" of having sunk so much time to get it. If that's the case then fine, it's a disagreement with the very premise this started from.

Lithril Ashwalker · Mar 30, 2011, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Nope, not signed your assuming there are people out there that are grinding to get the title and this is not so. Other titles are far easier to obtain and to max than this title it's an option to max just like all others. This title specifically is a casual players title. Not meant to be easy

Reformed · Mar 30, 2011, 10:39 PM // 22:39

No, hell no. Treasure Hunter is one of the last somewhat prestigious titles left in PvE precisely because you can't max it out easily. This sense of entitlement in the playerbase needs to stop and the title was made easier once already, single character -> cumulative account total.

LifeInfusion · Mar 30, 2011, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Do FOWSC or whatever. At least one chest per run. If you're really lazy go run COF level 1.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/c...t10145278.html

MrKGado · Mar 30, 2011, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

Nope, not signed your assuming there are people out there that are grinding to get the title and this is not so. Other titles are far easier to obtain and to max than this title it's an option to max just like all others. This title specifically is a casual players title. Not meant to be easy

I agree and disagree. The same thing can be said about the drunkard title; that it was a casual players title, especially if they used kegs and drank while playing missions and vanquishing. At the same time, there is something to be said about the length of time it takes to gain a title. The longer the title takes and the more difficicult it is to obtain, the more presigious it is.

Some people grind the treasure hunter title like others grinded the drunkard title. Oppositely, some people gain the title through casual play like others did with the drunkard title prior to the update.

I think it is impossible and unfair to classify titles as "casual players titles" because we do not know what ANet really intended when these titles were added...I would even go as far to say ANet did not know their true intentions or how involved some of them would be until after they were already implemented.

Either way, titles are just that, titles. They are optional and, for the most part, completely unnecessary to play and enjoy Guild Wars. However, if ANet truly wants Guild Wars to be a game that limits unnecessary grinding, they may want to consider making the treasure hunter title and other similar titles take less time.

I think something should be done to make these titles more obtainable in regards to time.

/signed

Gabriel of Ravn · Mar 30, 2011, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Golden eggs rawr go go farm in 1 month

Rites · Mar 30, 2011, 10:54 PM // 22:54

lmao

i swear laziness spreads faster the more ANet screws things up

people seem to forget the fact that titles are an OPTION, and as such should never have been easy to get in the first place.

with this chain of thought from lazy players, I truly am waiting for the day when titles are just added to character creation
Step 5: Please choose which titles you wish for this character to be able to display

/notsigned

Reformed · Mar 30, 2011, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrKGado

...they may want to consider making the treasure hunter title and other similar titles take less time.

Other similar titles meaning account based ones? Big difference between the scope of those and single character ones, there always has been.

fires element · Mar 30, 2011, 11:04 PM // 23:04

another " i want this title but don't want to do much to get it thread".....

i have a different suggestion- instead of ANET changing each title individually just give all accounts and characters ALL max titles from the day its created. that will solve this problem and free up some time for the developers to get the new game out faster

jazilla · Mar 30, 2011, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Golden Eggs significantly reduce the time it takes to max this title out. I have over 12k chests opened, and I wouldn't mind seeing ALL PvE chests count for this title. Just because they aren't "Max" chests doesn't mean that there isn't treasure in them

Bright Star Shine · Mar 30, 2011, 11:33 PM // 23:33

I'm currently working on my treasure hunter (~7,250) and by (a non-existent) god if they change it, I will be pissed off. This is one of the last remainders of things to do, and I don't want it devaluated to nothing, my GWAMM I got 2 and a half years ago already represents nothing anymore, as the above guy stated.

Also, 5 chests/hour? Lol?

If you really want the title, and go chest running, in the right area you can do 5 chests/3minutes, so it boils down to ~100 hours, make it ~130 counting that you won't always get 5 chests. It's actually faster than drunkard used to be.

Also, 40 chests/6 minutes? How stoned are you?

Jerec The Raven · Mar 30, 2011, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Maybe if you could dedicate the title in HOM at lvl 3 like some other titles.

Gabriel of Ravn · Mar 31, 2011, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerec The Raven

Maybe if you could dedicate the title in HOM at lvl 3 like some other titles.

If they did something like this then I would agree with r5 treasure hunter but not to maxing it easier like OP wants.

MrKGado · Mar 31, 2011, 12:18 AM // 00:18

@ Jerec and Gabriel:

That actually sounds like a more reasonable request. One that I didn't think of.

Hobbs · Mar 31, 2011, 12:20 AM // 00:20

/notsigned I'm considering attempting this title because I have nothing else to do ingame but I like it and want to keep playing. Whatever I decide to undertake, I want it to take a long time.

Tried and Triumphed · Mar 31, 2011, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Not Signed for aforementioned reasons however making all chests count for the title is a decent suggestion. For the record the whole "why not just make it so you get all titles when you log on" sarcasm rant is getting just as old as the "I want titles with no work" threads

Daisuko · Mar 31, 2011, 01:08 AM // 01:08

golden eggs and buying golds from other players say hi.

fires element · Mar 31, 2011, 02:02 AM // 02:02

even though i maxed treasure hunter by chest running i would agree that it is a tedious way of doing. but i chose to do it that way since i wanted the title maxed. you don't want to chest run to max it then that is your choice. so i would suggest that you take all of characters how many of those you have and get all those other titles you mentioned in your edit and see how close you get.

knockturnal · Mar 31, 2011, 02:33 AM // 02:33

No. Just no.

5 chests an hour is just dreadful. Considering most zones have around 5 chests spawn in them, you'd have to not even be paying attention to only get 5. And if you're not paying attention to the title, why should it be easier for you to obtain it?

The sense of entitlement in GW is what scares me about GW2.

gremlin · Mar 31, 2011, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Yes some of these titles take an inordinate amount of time or money to gain and because of this many will be unable or unwilling to go for them.

Isn't this a good thing, I mean to be successful a game must provide a certain level of challenge if we complete everything too easily we complain.

I like the fact that I am unable to beat Duncan the Black because I have something to look forward to doing ditto Murakai lady of the night haven't done that in hard mode either.

There are also some titles I am unlikely to get either because I haven't the time or I consider them stupid.
I am now in pre searing with 2 characters trying for ldoa because now it isnt a stupidly obtained title.
Though you can still get it that way because death leveling sadly still exists.

I hope they consider carefully before making too many titles easier

Having thought more on this I would add.
Any title that has to be seriously worked at and needs a brain to succeed should stay as is.
Anything that just takes time or money or can be gained afk I have no opinion on leave them or give them away ultimately doesn't matter since it doesn't affect anyone already with same.